Posts by Island Man

1

Who will win The Voice?

by Island Man in

my favourite to win is tessanne chin.. secret hideaway:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3apbcymcg4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu34s07okgi.

Major flub in Slavery Watchtower Study Article

by scotoma in

jw
friends

do you ever wonder if the watchtower writers actually read the context of their key scriptures?.

they seem intent on perpetuating the idea that the jewish law was divine - perfect.. paragraph two asks the question "what would prompt an israelite slave to forfeit his opportunity.

to be free?".

It's funny you should mention that scotoma. I was thinking along the same lines. I was thinking that to myself that that passage of scripture so aptly describes being enslaved by the Watchtower organization and when you become mentally free you have to remain because you love your family who are still in.

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

Island Man

Here's another hole that I've spotted in the ransom teaching:

Romans 5:15-17 says this:

"But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many. 16 Also, it is not with the free gift as it was with the way things worked through the one [man] that sinned. For the judgment resulted from one trespass in condemnation, but the gift resulted from many trespasses in a declaration of righteousness. 17 For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ."

The above passage makes it seem like Jesus act of justification is the exact opposite of Adam's sin in terms of it's efficasy. In fact it even implies that the benefit of the ransom is going to be applied more liberally to all, than was the condemnation from Adam's sin was passed on to all. However, that is clearly not the case. The penalty for Adam's sin was passed on to us all automatically with none of us having a say or choice in the matter. We don't have to exercise faith in Adam or his sin, to suffer the penalty of death. But to experience the gift of life from the ransom, we have to work hard at cultivating faith in Jesus and his sacrifice. More than that we also have to work hard against our sinful tendencies so as to not disqualify ourself from benefiting. Everyone dies because of Adam's sin whether they want to or not. By contrast, a large percentage of mankind will not benefit from the ransom.

Shouldn't the ransom be applied automatically to all of Adam's offspring even as Adam's sin was applied automatically to all - especially since it isn't our fault that we were born imperfect and prone to sin?

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

Island Man

Does the fact that Jesus was raised up on the third day water down the whole "sacrifice" part of the story for you?

Yes it does. You are very right about the permanence of death being its primary character of evilness (for want of a better word). If death were not permanent it would not be death - just a temporary, passing state of stasis. To further illustrate your point, think of 1 Corinthians 15:52-55. According to that passage aren't those raised up from the dead also to be part of the taunt: "Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” So even though they were dead - some even for many centuries - death loses the victory once they are raised up. Death only wins - only succeeds in its purpose as death - if the dead remain dead for all eternity. Death is supposed to be an eternal condition. (Ecclesiastes 9:6) This is why the resurrection steals its victory according to the taunting words of 1 Corinthians 15:55.

In view of the above, if a redeemer had to truly die a substitionary death to ransom others, he would have to truly die - truly be given to death for all eternity. The three day death of Jesus (more like 1.5 to 1.75 days if you check the biblical timeline of his death and resurrection) is more akin to a benefactor paying off your debt to your creditor and then having the creditor subsequently return the payment to him.

And here's something else to think about: If the wages sin pays is death for a finite period of time (as with Jesus), then why do we even need a ransom? We were all born imperfect and doomed to sin and death owing to, not our own fault as individuals, but that of Adam. Wouldn't it make perfect sense for us all to be given some special consideration due to mitigating circumstances beyond our control? Furthermore could not this special consideration take this form: Let everyone die for the penalty of sin and that settles each individual's debt to sin. (According to the JWs' interpretation of Romans 6:7) Thereafter, each individual could be raised up perfect with the opportunity at everlasting life. For if being dead temporarily (as Jesus was) is all it takes to atone for sin, then each individual can die temporarily for his own sin and with his slate thus cleaned, there can be no legal objection to God giving him a shot at everlasting life like Adam had. The person's past life has essentially been balanced out and he is being created new from the dust even as Adam was originally created from the dust.

Am I the only one that has thought this?

Clearly you're not.

45

is all religon crap?

by thesaint in

jw
friends

like jw are crap is there any religon dat is atally conneced to god?.

Island Man

I find the very idea of worship to be crap. (No offense meant to those who are religious. I was once religious myself)

Just think about it for a minute: Why would a being who truly is superior to us morally and intellectually, practically coerce us into praising him? (It is coersion because if we choose not to worship him there is the threat of eternal destruction or eternal torment, depending on your brand of belief)

Why would a great being need other lesser beings to keep reminding him of his greatness? The last time I checked, egomania was not a virtue but an unhealthy obsession. Why would a supremely intelligent, wise and moral being be an egomaniac? No one who asks you - threatens or bribes you - to worship him, deserves worship. It is no more moral and sane to demand that others worship you, than it is to demand that others love you. Why can't religious people understand this? Because religion is a virus of the mind that blinds people from thinking straight and which at times over-rules their humane conscience, getting them to do horrible things they would not otherwise do.

12

Eph 1:1 - An example of eisegesis

by leaving_quietly in

eisegesis (formed from the greek preposition ?

"into" and the ending from the english word exegesis, which in turn is derived from ??

"to lead out") is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.

Island Man

So that text should really say something like:

" Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to those who are holy and faithful in Christ Jesus." ?

24

Is there an official name for this comedic device?

by Island Man in

is there an official name for the comedic device where one replaces one word with another word having a similar pronounciation but a different (usually derisive) meaning?.

for example, some skeptics deride the bible by spelling it "buy-bull".

same or simliar pronounciation but entirely different meaning.

Island Man

I just learned a new one - Watchtarded. Thanks OUTLAW!

Here's another one - Gaffe-earning Body. Or if you prefer - Gaffe-honing Body.

I think malapropism is the closest official terminology, but it's not a perfect fit because malapropism is supposed to be unintentional while this is deliberate and calculated. How about malaTTATTism? Or how about Deliberate Insultive Synophone (DIS for short )

24

Is there an official name for this comedic device?

by Island Man in

is there an official name for the comedic device where one replaces one word with another word having a similar pronounciation but a different (usually derisive) meaning?.

for example, some skeptics deride the bible by spelling it "buy-bull".

same or simliar pronounciation but entirely different meaning.

Island Man

Is there an official name for the comedic device where one replaces one word with another word having a similar pronounciation but a different (usually derisive) meaning?

For example, some skeptics deride the bible by spelling it "buy-bull". Same or simliar pronounciation but entirely different meaning. Here are some examples I have heard in the X-JW community:

Washtowel Babylon Trash Society

Pious-sneer

Farticle

Circus Oversneer

Troof

Faith-fooled Indiscreet Slave

Hateful Indiscreet Slave

Kingdumb Hell

Joseph Ratherfraud

8

New World will comewith or without JWs!

by abiather in

we know how animalistic religion can become if we have a look at those religions which had political powers!

they simply executed anyone with a differing opinion.

you dont need any religion.

Island Man

Reading your description of the metamorphosis from caterpillar to butterfly, I couldn't help but wonder if these aren't actually two different creatures sharing a common genome - a sort of symbiosis at the genomic level - where the caterpillar's genome is active at first and then, after it dies, the genome of the butterfly gets activated. Could the genomes of two creatures have gotten fused somehow in the distant past? Or could it be that the caterpillar was originally an entirely separate evolutionary descendent of the butterfly and then eventually something happened in the caterpillar genome causing them to regress back to a butterfly at death as a sort of atavism?

29

Who is the FDS class from midweek meeting....last night

by Legacy in

last night we had our midweek meeting.

the bible reading was from "who is doing jehovah's will....the part where they asked who was the fds.

i thought because of the past sept. wt, every hand would go up....all you heard were crickets.

Island Man

Same problem at our BS meeting.

A sister answered that the FDS is all of the anointed. The BS Overseer (COBE) never corrected her and a brother in the audience had to explain the new light from the 2012 AGM/July 15, 2013 WT.

George

That's exactly what happened at my meeting! I even know a brother named George. Hey . . . are you in "my" congregation?